CONTENT WARNING: This document contains references to religious extremism, sectarian violence and terrorism. It is meant to reflect an exchange of worldviews as they pertain to religion and does not reflect the opinions of Windfall Entertainment, LLC as an organization.

ALEX RICHMOND
WRITER

AJ DELONG
PRODUCER, Father Tobias Reynolds

REBECCA OLIVIA HODGES
Aashvi Mishra

CATHERINE PIP
Dr. Ellie Himes

TALIEE
Rabbi Tabitha Bilal

CHRIS ROUST
Bishop Jonathan Cole

TYLER MOODY
Dr. Ravi Banjeree

Transcript of:

July 15, 2170

<AUDIENCE CHEERS>

AASHVI MISHRA:

Good evening and welcome to our audience both here on Luna and across the system. I’m SNN anchor Aashvi Mishra and we’re here in the beautiful Shepard Memorial Auditorium at Hartmann University. We’re gathered this evening for a fascinating discussion as part of the ongoing S3: Special Speakers Series hosted by Hartmann University and the Solar News Network.

Our discussion tonight brings us to the very reaches of our star system and the depths of our own souls. Today marks a decade since the discovery of the famed Bifröst Station – a find that has no doubt changed the way we see ourselves and the systems we cling to. None of those systems have been more profoundly shaken in the past ten years than our systems of belief, which bring us together this evening. Our discussion is being titled “Changing Perspectives: Faith in the Age of the Bifröst Station,” and I’m joined tonight by a spectacular panel of faith leaders.

Joining me from Harvard Divinity School is Doctor Ellie Himes, author of the recently published book “Into the Void: How Religion Shrinks as Our Universe Grows.” Dr. Himes, welcome.

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

It’s an absolute pleasure. I’m so happy to be here.

AASHVI MISHRA:

Also joining us is Rabbi Tabitha Bilal of the New Abrahamic Church, author of “Moses, Jesus, Muhammad: The Promise of the Abrahamic Covenant.” Rabbi Bilal, welcome.

RABBI TABITHA BILAL:

Thank you, Aashvi. Would you believe it’s my first time on Luna?

AASHVI MISHRA:

Oh my! Welcome!

We have Bishop Jonathan Cole from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Albany here, recently recognized for his humanitarian efforts in the American Coastal Reclamation Project. Welcome, Father.

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

Glad to be here.

AASHVI MISHRA:

Next up is Doctor Ravi Banerjee of the Golden Temple of the Starlit Buddha here on Luna and author of “A New North Star” and “A Place in the Heavens.”

DR. RAVI BANERJEE:

Thank you, Aashvi. Thank you for having me.

AASHVI MISHRA:

And finally, we have Father Tobias Reynolds, host of the popular livestream show “The Call of the Gate.” Welcome, Father Reynolds.

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

See additional data on Tobias Reynolds and the Guardians of the Gates of Heaven here.

Well that’s not fair, is it?

AASHVI MISHRA:

We… uh… Oh, sorry. Uh, Pardon?

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

How about, Father Tobias Reynolds, founder of the Guardian Church, which broadcasts to a quarter billion people around the Sol System every –

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

Pop religion.

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

Excuse me?

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

I said you’re a pop religion. You’re a fad. And a dangerous one to boot.

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

The Guardians are one of the fastest-growing religions in the system, Jonny. How’s the Catholic Church doing these days? Consolidated any more dioceses lately? Let’s try –

<REYNOLDS’S MIC IS TURNED OFF>

AASHVI MISHRA:

Uh… Well, obviously we can already see that we’re going to be having a spirited discussion this evening. There’s certainly a lot to talk about and we’re looking at how the last ten years of study, wonder, and conflict over the Bifröst Station has changed our perceptions of faith and religion.

Dr. Himes, I want to start with you tonight. In your book – I mean, in many ways your book is what’s started the discussion we’re having tonight but on a cultural scale – in your book, you describe the discovery of the Bifröst Station as – and I quote, here – “the final nail in the coffin of traditional religion” and “the inevitable conclusion of a world where God shrinks as the universe expands. Can you explain to us what you mean by that?

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

You know, Aashvi, if I just tell everybody, nobody will read my book.

<AUDIENCE LAUGHS>

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

No, no. I’m happy to share. So back in the uh… 19th century? Friedrich Nietzsche sort of threw out this philosophy that suggests that in a scientific world, God gets relegated to this idea of a “God of the gaps,” as it’s sometimes called. Basically anything that science can’t explain – or at least, can’t explain yet – gets labeled as “God.” We don’t yet understand why we have a solar cycle! That must be God. Tides? That’s God. Where did we come from? That’s God.

The problem with that – and it’s one of those things that a lot of theists will cling to without admitting to – is that it really leaves us with an increasingly-limited God that keeps getting smaller and smaller. It’s a diminishing deity whose death we can blame on people like Darwin and Copernicus because they give us alternative and verifiable means of finding answers. Those tides are from Luna’s gravitational pull. We came from a process of millions of years of evolution.

AASHVI MISHRA:

And the Bifröst…

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

Right, right, right – My point is that now, in the 22nd century, we’ve come to realize that those alternative methods – which we call “science,” now – are a much better vehicle for answering those great unknowns than thousands of years of religion ever were.

And we know it now because ten years ago, humanity – finding this station – was suddenly put into a place where it was given a fresh set of those “big questions,” the likes of which we haven’t seen in centuries: “Who built the ring? What does it do? Why is it here?”

If you were to plop down a giant hexagonal ring with some glowing lights and a portal to another place in the middle of a medieval European village, first off, they’d all shit themselves – sorry, Father…

<AUDIENCE LAUGHS>

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

…That old Catholic guilt kicks in – what can I say? Anyway… they’d be terrified, but the next thing they’d do is start asking questions. The same questions we’re asking today. But unlike today, there would only be one means of obtaining those answers and that’s the Church. And because the Church wouldn’t be able to answer them, the default would be… “It was God.”

But because the answer-solving vehicle of religion is now off the track, we turn to science to find answers and we’re already getting back mountains of data. And that, I think, is one of the truest signs of – well, like I say in the book – that’s the nail in the coffin. We’ve moved on, or at least… most of us have.

AASHVI MISHRA:

So it’s not the discovery of the Station itself that you say is this inevitable conclusion…

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

Oh, no no. No, it’s not the discovery – nobody could have predicted that. It’s the fact that, when faced with the biggest questions of our time, humans are no longer turning en masse to faith-based systems because we don’t need to anymore.

AASHVI MISHRA:

Rabbi Bilal: You’re obviously a woman of faith, so I feel like I know – or at least I think I know – where you’ll take this, but… What do you think of Dr. Himes’s thoughts on this… I guess on this idea of the Bifröst Station being a gauge of religion in our time?

RABBI TABITHA BILAL:

I actually find it to be an interesting precept and you’ll have to forgive me, Dr. Himes, but I haven’t yet had the chance to read your book.

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

Well now you don’t need to.

RABBI TABITHA BILAL:

Oh no, I do. I find it very interesting. But I think what you’re really highlighting is the danger of this “God of the Gaps” supposition. A faith that is going to stand the test of time – all of the massive changes that we’ve seen since, as Dr. Himes hinted at, the Scientific Revolution – must be malleable, but it also must be rooted in constants.

The Abrahamic Church is rooted in this understanding that the God of Abraham is the God of Moses is the God of Jesus is the God of Muhammad, but each of those men was given a unique message for a unique time. Jews and Christians and Muslims spent centuries squabbling over exclusivity and who’s the “most right” while ignoring the fact that they were all worshipping the same God with the same values: Things like “do to others what you would have them do to you”, “God is One,” and – most importantly, that “God is Love.” Some things have a certain place and time, but other things are eternal.

So when we look at something like the discovery of this object – not created by human hands or by natural processes – placed out at the edge of our solar system, it shouldn’t be a religion versus science showdown because that’s not the place of true faith. Answering all those questions is science’s place and time. And that’s fine. Because true faith should be helping us to answer those moral questions of “How should we be treating our fellow man as we all scramble for meaning, here?” Or perhaps “If we should find the creators of this thing… how should we respond to them?”

AASHVI MISHRA:

Father Cole, you look like you’re about to jump out of your seat, there. I take it you’d like to respond.

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

I would, I… I’m just trying to figure out how to say this without sounding like a big stick in the mud.

Rabbi Bilal knows that I have the utmost respect for her academics, but when it comes to theology, there are some tremendous differences between the two of us.

RABBI TABITHA BILAL:

Who’d have thought?

AASHVI MISHRA:

Father, you’ve been very open about your opinions about the Station and its impact – or I suppose I should say lack of impact – on Church theology and its future. Can you tell us why that is?

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

Uh… Right… so… When Saint Paul, or… we think it was Paul, anyway… wrote his letter to the Hebrews, he says in Chapter 13 how Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I bring this up for two reasons: First, because while I definitely understand the historical family tree of, uh… Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it’s verses like this that cause me to disagree fundamentally with Rabbi Bilal – and the Abrahamic Church’s – assertion that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are all basically repackaged versions of the same thing. The second reason I bring it up is because it essentially forms the basis of why I can say with certainty that the finding of this artifact out in space does absolutely nothing to impede the truth and the future of the Church.

AASHVI MISHRA:

So from your perspective, the finding of the Bifröst Station is just… business as usual for the Catholic Church?

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

I mean… is it surprising? Absolutely. Does it change some fundamental things about the world? Sure. But history is riddled with these monumental moments and each time the Church has pushed through. Look at the fall of Rome. Nobody thought the Empire would collapse. It did. The Church survived. Nobody in Europe thought there was another pair of continents in the West. There was. The Church survived…

RABBI TABITHA BILAL:

The Aztecs didn’t.

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

The Incas didn’t.

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

…Uh… As a political force, absolutely: The Church proved destructive in these instances and has paid for it since. But as a spiritual force… as a source of truth, the Church endured. It’s still here. A hexagon in space isn’t going to change that.

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

But what about the Protestant Reformation? The Scientific Revolution?

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

What about them?

DR. ELLIE HIMES:

These were – as you say – monumental moments that flat-out rocked the Church and forced it to dramatically change.

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

But it… Look: All I’m saying is that the Church is still here after 2200 years and God’s truth is as strong as ever.

<AUDIENCE LAUGHS>

AASHVI MISHRA:

Father Tobias, would you like to tag in here?

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

I absolutely would. I have to say that I was hoping tonight was going to be an actual exchange of honest ideas about the Gate. Instead we have an atheist with her head in the sand about its meaning, a rabbi who’s desperately trying to satisfy three contradictory belief systems, and a clergyman who’s clinging to the ideas of a two thousand year old religious organization that’s had the shit kicked out of it by its own history. The fact is that all of human history has led us to exactly where we are today. When we finally found the Gate of Heaven all other systems of faith melted away. They were temporary. All of them. Placeholders until we got here.

AASHVI MISHRA:

And, for our audiences, by “Gate of Heaven” you’re referencing the Bifröst?

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

I am. Bifröst is a name my ministry doesn’t like to use. Even that is a placeholder mocking a false religion. When humanity discovered the Gate, we gained real truth for the first time in our history. Our first glimpse at our true creators… and each day we learn more. In forty… fifty years? All the old belief systems will have passed and all of humanity will know the truth.

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

The truth that you let your followers sacrifice themselves for publicity?

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

Excuse me?

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

Just yesterday, one of your followers – practically a kid – set himself on fire in a maglift station in Denver. The day before that a bus blew up in–

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

No no… you misunderstand me. By “excuse me,” I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church pointing out my followers’ use of violence.

BISHOP JONATHAN COLE:

That’s absurd.

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

I agree. It is.

RABBI TABITHA BILAL:

Didn’t you tell your followers that “the path to heaven is red with blood?”

FATHER TOBIAS REYNOLDS:

Isn’t sacrifice a tenant of all three Abrahamic faiths? I carry a message that people want to hear. Our estimates show we’re bringing thousands to the truth every day. When’s the last time that was true for the Catholic Church, Father?

AASHVI MISHRA:

I do want to come back to these accusations of violence and even terrorism on behalf of the Guardians of the Gates of Heaven, but we do need to cut to a commercial break and I want to give Dr. Banerjee a quick moment to, uh… make himself known. You’ve been quiet down there!

DR. RAVI BANERJEE:

I have. I always prefer listening, Aashvi.

AASHVI MISHRA:

Obviously we’ve been throwing around a number of ideas tonight already. Do you have any thoughts you want to leave us with before we take our first break?

DR. RAVI BANERJEE:

I do, yes. But may I share a quick story first?

AASHVI MISHRA:

I think we can make the time.

DR. RAVI BANERJEE:

I appreciate that. There’s a very old story dating back at least to Buddhism’s early years – and possibly drawing on Hindu or Jainist traditions that are even older. The story goes that a number of blind men are asked to examine an elephant – a creature they’ve never heard of before. One man takes hold of the elephant’s trunk and takes in the animal the only way he can in this case – through his sense of touch. “Oh,” he says. “An elephant must be much like a snake!” Another man touches the elephant’s ear and says “Oh no, an elephant is very much like a fan!” Another touches his leg and says “it is like a tree!” while another grabs hold of a tusk and says “An elephant is like a spear!”

AASHVI MISHRA:

And of course, they’re all wrong.

DR. RAVI BANERJEE:

Oh no, Aashvi! Each of them is entirely correct according to the information that they have. But each of them misses the experience of the others and therefore misses the greater truth. And we are here tonight arguing – just as humans have argued for thousands of years – like those blind men, each looking to explain the world according to our own experiences. We all have our own interpretation of the holy… the divine… the eternal. God – or, in some cases gods if you wish to use those monikers.

AASHVI MISHRA:

And so, to wrap things up here before we cut to our first commercial, how does your parable relate to the Bifröst Station?

DR. RAVI BANERJEE:

Because… now is the time that we must step back from the positions we’ve all entrenched ourselves in, engage in true discourse and ask ourselves earnestly: Is this Bifröst Station just another part of the animal for us to interpret and work into our understanding, or perhaps – for the first time in the human experience – have we begun to see the elephant for what it truly is?

AASHVI MISHRA:

Mmm… a fascinating thought and a great place to pause.

We’re going to take a quick break to recognize our sponsors at Hartmann University, SolBank and WalkerBiotics and then we’ll be right back with more discussion. Stay tuned…

<AUDIENCE CHEERS>